In my last article I posted in response to an atheist that claimed that I don’t understand, atheism, metaphysics, information, evidence etc.. I attempted to show how most atheists don’t understand their own position by using some of his claims and dismantling their obvious errors. Not surprisingly this same atheist has once again responded with the same insistence and of course, the same errors. He has still not seen any light. Of course not, he would have to off his blinders to see any light.
So here, once again, I’ll post some of his further misguided comments and respond. This time for the last time as I’ve learned over the years that arguing with adamantly religious atheist fundamentalists is a waste of time. They cannot see because they don’t want to see and thus live in perpetual denial of reality and darkness.
So let’s deal with his first, unsurprising because almost universal with web debate atheists, but utterly wrong claim,
“Evidence for atheism? No, atheism is the default position.”
This is a ubiquitous claim among modern atheists but still very wrong and that for several reasons:
1. Who says atheism is the default position?
Can anyone seriously make this claim and back it up? No. It is a positive claim to knowledge that no atheist possesses. Worse – Can atheists prove this? Have they proved this? No they have not and no they cannot.
The claim assumes, or rather presumes, that metaphysical beliefs, religion and faith if you please, are taught and learned from early childhood. It assumes that no metaphysical concepts exist in initially in very young children. It also assumes, (once again revealing that the atheist here doesn’t understand that he has a positively chosen metaphysical position, a religious belief), that atheism is a non position – no position at all! This is rather amazing persistence in the foolishness of denial of reality that is atheism. Yet, this same atheist implores me to open up comments so he (in his own mind) can refute what I’m saying here! He has not understood the real nature of atheism yet, but still wants to refute it. This is so common today that it’s a tragedy.
2. If atheism is the default position, where is the proof of this?
The atheist wrongly assumes that a default position doesn’t require proof. If this were the default position it still requires proof that it ought truly be the default position. Back to square one! More atheist circular reasoning that, in their default cognitive dissonance creating position, hinders them from detecting.
3. There is ever mounting evidence that atheism is not the default position.
Dr. Justin L. Barrett is senior researcher at University of Oxford’s Centre for Anthropology and Mind and the Institute for Cognitive and Evolutionary Anthropology. Barrett has published studies demonstrating that metaphysical beliefs or innate or born in humans. His research, which is also based on or associated with the research of many others who have come to the same conclusions, is that humans are born with a natural propensity to believe in God, purpose in life, and they demonstrate a clear recognition of designed artifacts versus natural ones right from the earliest stages of cognition. Here is a link to a short article. Dr. Barrett has even written a book on the subject called Born Believers: The Science of Children’s Religious Belief.
As one commenter of the book put it,
“A fascinating and readable account of why religious beliefs are perfectly normal and virtually universal. In an age of atheism, this book will challenge widespread assumptions that nonbelief is the default and that children must be indoctrinated to believe. Jam-packed with insight and wit, Born Believers should be required reading for all parents and for anyone else interested in the spiritual lives of children.” — Robert A. Emmons, Professor of Psychology, University of California
“The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children’s minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose,” – on BBC Radio “4 Today”.
“If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God.”
I may also point to the work of Paul Bloom of the Department of Psychology, Yale University, USA. His essay called, “Religion is natural”, Bloom says,
“The proposal here is that there are certain early-emerging cognitive biases that give rise to religious belief. These include body–soul dualism and a hyper-sensitivity to signs of agency and design. These biases make it natural to believe in Gods and spirits, in an afterlife, and in the divine creation of the universe. These are the seeds from which religion grows.”
Many other recent research articles could be noted.
Atheists are once again shown to be off in their logic and metaphysics. Once again, I provide solid and simple reasoning and evidence whereas the atheist provides bare assertions. Assertions that, no matter how universal, inevitably turn out to be false.
Thus you can see why the atheists’ next statement is also wrong,
“The claims that need evidence are the positive claims “there is a God” or “there is no God”.
Worse, or perhaps better, I’m not sure, the atheist says,
“Atheism is simply the position of not accepting the positive claims. Without evidence either way I am agnostic. But I am also an atheist. Your writing undoubtedly betrays your lack of awareness of this position.”
Here the atheist has modified his definition of himself in contradictory ways. First he states that atheism, previously a mere “absence of belief”, is now a refusal to accept evidence – which is exactly what I’ve been saying all along. So has he accepted this at last? Apparently no, as he is very confused as well. How so? He now claims to be an atheist agnostic. But the two are mutually exclusive! One cannot be an agnostic and an atheist at the same time. Agnostics are not atheists, they simply claim they don’t know whether their is a God or not, and many also claim that such knowledge is unattainable. Atheists, on the other hand do not believe in God at all, and many, such as this atheist friend of ours here, adamantly refuse all evidence pointing to a supreme being. “Curiouser and curiouser”!
Then he adds,
“Not only that, but even if you do attack atheism it doesn’t prove theism true.”
This is rather surprising since I stated clearly in the previous article that proving any specific evidence for God wrong does not prove there is no God. Obviously the reverse is true. Proving atheist counter propositions to God to be false doesn’t prove there is a God. And?
Then he insults my academic and experiential credentials – a bachelors degree in informatics plus many years of experience in information technologies – by stating,
“As for your not understanding information, you don’t. The idea that you think information necessitates a mind is just a nonsense.”
Obviously our friend is very uniformed on information himself. As he follows with this,
“Are the ice core records not information? Are tree-rings not information? Are soil layers not information? If they are then information obviously doesn’t need a mind, and if not explain why DNA is information and these things are not.”
Here we see a very common and glaring error committed by atheists attempting to refute the laws of information and the nature of specified information. Once again the atheist fails to discern between information and the medium in which it is stored, even though I clearly explained this here. Also here and here as well. Not clearly enough apparently, or he didn’t read it.
Our atheist antagonist commits intellectual suicide here, not realizing that this very statement proves him wrong.
Ice cores, tree rings, soil layers etc. are information? No they are not. They are only what they are – natural phenomena. It’s like claiming that a rock is information. No it isn’t.
However, a mind can derive information from such things by obtaining previous knowledge on interpretation of ice layering properties etc.. The information on conditions of the various eras when the ice was formed exists only in a mind that can reason upon its natural properties. It is not structured information contained in the ice itself. Moreover, this is not specified information. It isn’t algorithmic at all. Not is it encoded, the code exists in the mind of the interpreter alone.
The same thing applies to tree rings, soil layers, and the color of stars, a benzene molecule etc. These things merely are what they are. Information derived by understanding their nature and condition is completely other and can only be derived by a mind using logic. Logic is a property only of minds. Rocks have no logic. Rocks carry only matter and information can be derived from them by a thinking mind with other information.
The information contained in DNA is however another matter altogether – again as I previously explained in the original article. It is algorithmic, prescriptive and descriptive information such as one finds in a recipe or a set of plans for building a car. It’s information does not point only to itself, but describes whole information systems constructed with proteins by long sequential, algorithmically ordered molecules of amino acids.
I suggest those interested in a real understanding of information read the published papers of Dr David L. Abel and Jack T. Trevors here. Their work and lucent reasoning is devastating to both atheism and it’s origins myth, Darwinism.
Here’s a short excerpt on their work from Biosemiotic Research Trends,
Genomic instructions are a form of what Abel (Abel, 2002, Abel and Trevors, 2005) calls prescriptive information. Such a clarifying descriptor of information is necessary to distinguish mere Shannon combinatorial uncertainty and Kolmogorov complexity from functional algorithmic strings. Algorithms steer events and behaviors towards predictable usefulness. Prescriptive information utilizes a sign system to either instruct or direct compute utility.
Artificial life investigators and most applied biologists accepted this reality early on. Steering is required to achieve sophisticated function of any kind. Much of the life-origin research community, however, continues to “live in denial” of this fact.
The atheist/agnostic (I don’t think he knows what he is) then states,
“Now, your last post contradicts your About section”
Right. Nuff’ said.
Then he adds, with equally unimpressive lucidity,
“See, to think about it you really need to be open to contrary views and to debate the evidence, you’re not willing to do that. What you are doing is closing the comments section and spreading dishonesty.”
Sadly, his own mind is shut like a trap and has probably been on hold for many years. The fact is that I’ve debated thousands of times with atheists, on and off line. So this poor dupe again insults me by claiming that I, like himself, have a closed mind and am not willing to debate! Laughable and truly pathetic. Oh and once again, there is no evidence for atheism.
The only dishonesty witnessed around web forums where atheists attempt to debate their “default” non-position is among atheist themselves, the most dishonest pseudo thinkers on earth.
He invites me to debate on his blog.
Sorry dear boy but no. That’s my only sane response, given he has understood virtually nothing I’ve said thus far and I have no hopes he ever will. I’ve seen overwhelming evidence of the following statements too many times for one person in one life and as I stated before, no longer interested in wasting time arguing endlessly with willful fools,
“The atheists are for the most part imprudent and misguided scholars who reason badly who, not being able to understand the Creation, the origin of evil, and other difficulties, have recourse to the hypothesis the eternity of things and of inevitability…..” – Voltaire: Philosophical Dictionary
“You can lead an atheist to evidence but you can’t make him think.” – Ray Comfort
“Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior. One need only ask an atheist what his morality is, and inquire as to how he developed it and why it should happen to so closely coincide with the dominant societal morality to discover that there is nothing rational about most atheists’ beliefs. Either he has none and is “immorally” practicing Dennett’s doxastic division of labor by unquestioningly accepting the societal norms that surround him, or he is simply selecting which aspects to credit and which to reject on the basis of his momentary desires. In neither case does anything that can legitimately be described as reason enter into the picture. The same is often true of his atheism itself; it is telling to note that Hitchens and Dawkins became atheists after long and exhaustive rational inquiries into the existence of God, both at the age of nine.
The idea that there is any rational basis for atheism is further damaged due to the way in which so many atheists become atheists during adolescence, an age which combines a tendency towards mindless rebellion as well as the onset of sexual desires which collide with religious strictures on their satisfaction” -Vox Day, aka Theodore Beale, The Irrational Atheist, p 147-148